Abigail Glerum, GoldenTree Asset Management

11.09.2025

In this episode of Meet the Investor, host Joey Mouracadeh sits down with Abigail Glerum, Principal at GoldenTree Asset Management, a global credit investment powerhouse managing over $58 billion USD in assets. Abby takes us inside the firm’s multi-strategy credit platform, explaining how GoldenTree goes far beyond traditional bonds. From high-yield bonds and leveraged loans, to structured credit, distressed debt, real estate debt, and emerging market credit, the firm’s reach spans the full spectrum of credit opportunities.

They also unpack the differences between credit instruments. What exactly is structured credit? How does distressed investing work in practice? And how does GoldenTree’s collaborative, asset-class-agnostic process allow them to pivot across market cycles and seize opportunities others may miss?

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Transcript

Joey: Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Meet the Investor. Joining us today we have Abby Glerum, Principal at GoldenTree Asset Management, a credit investment firm founded 25 years ago in the US with over 58 billion US dollars in funds under management. Thank you for joining us today, Abby.

Abby: Great. Thank you Joey. Good to be here.

Joey: Abby, maybe we could start with you telling us a little bit about yourself, your background and about the history of GoldenTree.

Abby: Absolutely. So, a little bit of background about myself. I started my career at UBS, within the private wealth management team where I was responsible for advising on asset allocation and portfolio construction for high-net-worth investors. Alternative credit was the area of the market or the area of the portfolios that I found the most interesting and where I thought really the most alpha could still be generated through active management.

So, I started working for GoldenTree about a decade ago in 2015.  I’ve been at the firm now for over a decade. I’m a product specialist, a principal on the team and a product specialist. And I focus on, a number of GoldenTree’s, alternative and fixed income strategies within the broader business development team.

As background on the firm, GoldenTree was founded in 2000 by Steve Tannenbaum. Prior to establishing GoldenTree, Steve ran the high-yield business at Mackay Shields for about a decade. Steve launched GoldenTree as a 100% employee-owned partnership, and we remain fully employee-owned today. We have 26 partners, almost half of those partners have been promoted to partner from within. Steve remains our founding partner and, CIO today. I highlight this employee partnership for two key reasons that I think are really important for investors. One, it means we’re able to attract and maintain one of the more experienced teams in the market. We have about a hundred person investment team with average experience of, 15 plus years.

Second, we don’t answer to any outside equity investors on asset growth targets. We size every strategy to be able to deliver top core, top performance, and strategically deploy capital based on investments that meet our process and can have the position sizes that are appropriate to deliver that top core, top performance.

GoldenTree’s Investment process is a fundamental value-based process. It’s been executed for 25 years. We’ve always been credit focused, and today we manage, as you mentioned, nearly 60 billion of AUM, across global credit markets.

Joey: So, you mentioned credit a few times there. Traditionally, credit investing is really about lending money to a borrower, assessing the risk that borrower will repay you, and ensuring that you’re getting compensated with an appropriate interest rate when you do that. How is what GoldenTree different to that if it is?

Abby: Yeah, it’s a great question. Really everything you mentioned is a core component of our process, but not the only component. Our investment process and underwriting process, again, is a, a fundamental value-based process with a focus on active management. The first step is we are evaluating what is a business worth and why.

That’s based on our own fundamental forward-looking analysis of that business’s earnings and free cash flow. We then require every investment meets a minimum margin of safety requirement. So typically, a debt instrument must have one and a half times asset coverage, about a dollar and a half of enterprise value per dollar of debt to meet our process.

But we aren’t just looking for, you know, can the borrower meet its debt obligation? And for that interest payment to be our sole driver of returns, we are total return oriented. So, in addition to what is the value of the business and do we have a sufficient margin of safety, we are also looking for a catalyst to drive price appreciation. This catalyst driven approach is a big differentiator. We aren’t just clipping a coupon. For example, we may buy a bond at 90 cents on the dollar that we think is worth par. Or a dollar because the company is generating positive operating performance that will enable it to pay down its debt and drive the price of that bond higher.

Finally, we are also then evaluating that positions relative value just because we find a credit instrument where we think we have a high margin of safety, confidence that the borrower can repay, and a catalyst to drive that total return. Is the total return of that instrument more attractive than other opportunities we see in the market?

So, we want our portfolios to be constructed of the most compelling risk adjusted return opportunities. It isn’t enough for just a position to look attractive on an absolute basis within one industry or one instrument. It has to be attractive on a relative basis.

Joey: And what credit instruments does GoldenTree invest in? Is it just standard bonds that you guys are working with of large corporates definitely broader than just bonds. We really invest across the broader universe of high yielding or sub investment grade credit. This can include performing credit, like high yield bonds and loans distressed debt, structured credit.

Abby: Real estate debt, emerging market debt. And importantly in each of these asset classes, the instrument might range from a more liquid and tradable CUSIP instrument to a more bespoke, private, directly, you know, structured instrument that GoldenTree designs and structures bilaterally with the borrower. So really spans asset classes as well as instrument types.

Joey: There’s a lot of, credit instrument jargon, I suppose there, could you maybe spend a little bit of time describing the differences between high yield bond performing credit, structured credit, distressed lending? What does that really mean in practical terms?

Abby: Yeah, of course. So GoldenTree’s process, as I mentioned, has always been asset class agnostic.  It is designed to compare the relative value across instruments, industries, and geography. For example, some companies might have a bond and a loan in their capital structure, so GoldenTree doesn’t approach investing in those asset classes any differently.

We are evaluating the credit profile of the business, determining which instrument, whether it’s the bond or the loan. Maybe the loan is more senior than the bond. Which instrument offers the best risk reward based on the price that we could purchase that instrument. As I mentioned before, that’s the same approach again, whether it’s a public bond or loan, or a more bespoke private financing solution.

For the other asset classes, so for investing in structured credit, these really are portfolios of debt that are then securitised. At GoldenTree we’re evaluating not just the debt instrument of the structure or the securitisation but also looking through to the underlying collateral pool and underwriting those assets.

So, for example, A CLO or a collateralised loan obligation is a portfolio of primarily first lien corporate loans. So, if we are analysing a double B tranche of that CLO debt. A double BCLO debt, tranche of that securitization. The first step is to look through to the underlying portfolio of loans and have a view on every one of those loans in the portfolio. Are there positions that we think are at risk of default that we shouldn’t assume? Collateralise our double B tranche. This enables us to scrub the portfolio. Then for the debt instrument, we’re considering the double B tranche. In this example, do we have sufficient collateral protection?

And this is really unique, GoldenTree has a structured credit team analysing the CLL structure and the industry specialists that are underwriting those underlying corporate collateral positions. That’s really a differentiator in a competitive advantage in the market. And then finally for distressed investing, this really begins with the same fundamental analysis of the issuer, same as what we do for corporate bonds and loans, thus determining what is a company’s enterprise value, understanding broader industry and sector considerations, and then determining the relative value of that investment to other potential opportunities.

But for distressed investments, we’re then also assessing what’s the potential restructuring risks, what are the various paths and outcomes that restructuring process may require or may create. And for this GoldenTree’s industry specialist, you’ll get a theme of collaboration here amongst our broader a hundred person team.

Our industry specialists are paired with a member or certain members of our dedicated in-house, roughly 15 person restructuring legal team.  So, in some situations in these distressed opportunities, we might seek to take an active controlling role where we look to create value through optimising that company’s capital structure, improving governance and execution, and a strategic operational turnaround of that business.

We would, in certain situations, look to install the best boards and management teams and then work closely with those teams to ensure that the turnaround plan is, executed to maximise value. So those restructuring professionals, I mentioned, several of them have hands-on operating experience. They’ve served as board directors for companies across a variety of industries and geographies.

While our approach is nuanced across instruments, bonds, loans, structured credit distressed, it really all comes down to the same philosophy. What is the value of the business or the structure? What is our margin of safety? What is the catalyst to drive total return, and how does that risk return profile compare to other opportunities we’re seeing across the market?

Joey: So a lot that unifies all those different strategies as you described. Are there particular preferences as to which type of instruments you are investing in? Depending on where we are in the market cycle.

Abby: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s why our process is designed to be like that. I think this is another key differentiator, competitive advantage relative to our peers who might be narrower or constrained in their strategy or have more siloed teams who aren’t. Collaborating, GoldenTree’s team and process is designed to be flexible and nimble across all these areas of the market and really will shift our focus depending on the environment. Credit markets have grown tremendously over the last 20 or 25 years and frankly move a lot quicker now than they did 25 years ago.

In some environments the best opportunities we see are tradable public liquid bonds, and then in other markets it might be more bespoke, private structured credit transactions. A couple of examples during COVID, we were active in buying R-M-B-S-A structured credit instrument backed by residential mortgages.

Buying those bonds at significant discounts to par given there was forced selling in that asset class by other funds in the market. Flip forward to the spring of 2023. There was a significant dislocation in corporate debt. Specifically, we were active in buying AT1s or the junior bonds of European banks, which had traded significantly lower after the Credit Suisse and SVB financial concerns. In more benign and less volatile markets like today where more liquid tradable credit is trading it historically tight spreads. We are focused on creating more bespoke private solutions within both corporate and structured credit markets where we can secure attractive return premiums.

Joey: And going into a little bit more specific examples, when you are looking at an opportunity, is there a target return you’re looking at how do you identify what a good opportunity looks like?

Abby: Yeah, we are generally focused on investments which offer at least 15% return potential and have a strong margin of safety. That is the asset coverage metric I mentioned earlier that dollar and a half of enterprise value or per dollar of debt. So that one and a half times asset coverage, that means the enterprise value of the business can shrink and we’re still covered on our debt. As I mentioned earlier, we’re also looking for that catalyst to drive total return.

A fundamental or event driven catalyst, which will cause that price appreciation to increase to what we believe is fair value. And generally, we’re looking for that catalyst to occur within the next year.

Joey: And when you are taking on this opportunity, you think there might be a 15% or so return, you’ve got your margin of safety and you’re giving it 12-month time horizon. What if that catalyst is not coming through as expected? How long do you ride an investment for before you decide maybe you have it wrong or that you just need to be more patient?

Abby: Our approach is extremely active. We are constantly monitoring our positions and updating those forward-looking assumptions. If a position we own trades lower due to market or broader sector, industry weakness, but our fundamental thesis hasn’t changed. That might be a great opportunity to increase our position at now an even better entry point at a lower price and higher target return. In contrast, if the position outperforms and now is approaching our price target, we typically are monetising that position and redeploying that capital into opportunities that offer better forward-looking risk return.

And finally, if our catalyst doesn’t play out or our thesis changes, we sell first. We then re-underwrite and determine is there a price? And if so, what is that price that we would be interested in adding the position back to the portfolio? Given our updated fundamental view of the business, that active trading approach allows us to both protect capital and exit positions early but also ensures that the portfolio is consistently comprised of the most attractive risk adjusted returns on a go forward basis.

Joey: These opportunities sound great to find in the market. Where does GoldenTree get the source of these opportunities and enough to make sure that they can leave some aside and go, into the ones that they like. Where are they sourced from?

Abby: The breadth and depth of GoldenTree’s investment team really gives us a unique competitive advantage in sourcing investments from a number of different channels. I really do think this is a big differentiator. First, I mentioned our industry specialist team, over 15 years of experience on average, these individuals have longstanding relationships with their industry counterparts, a thorough understanding and, often long relationships with management teams in these industries.

So along with GoldenTree’s size and scale, this results in us being usually an early call for issuers or underwriters looking to complete a transaction. It also means we can actively structure more bespoke private solutions. Sometimes we’re proactive in suggesting those solutions to management teams. The specialist nature of our investment team also allows us to evaluate opportunities. In a shorter timeframe than would be typically required by a more generalist portfolio manager. Allows us to give really timely feedback to our trading partners, and take advantage of dislocations in credit markets that, you know, frankly can be short lived.

Sometimes these opportunities are measurable in days or maybe weeks. But in addition to our industry specialists, we also have a dedicated capital markets and origination team, as well as the dedicated team of traders based in the US and Europe. We leverage our relationships with banks, broker dealers, asset managers, institutional investors, sponsors, arrangers, really sort of to access the broadest range of potential investment opportunities.

In addition, that restructuring and turnaround team I mentioned earlier, also has relationships with, you know, a broad range of market participants, investment banks, legal and restructuring advisors, private equity sponsors, turnaround specialists, this connectivity to the broader restructuring and an advisory community. Also provides us a competitive advantage because it’s another channel for us sourcing attractive investments, whether they’re distressed in nature or maybe new performing credit instruments. And then finally the same goes within structured credit. Our team has experience in structuring, managing, evaluating, trading, and investing in a broad array of structured credit across North America and Europe.

GoldenTree is an active and valued trading solutions provider. We’re known and respected for a quick turnaround and thoughtful turnaround on a range of transactions, and that’s led to really longstanding strong relationships and opportunities, for sourcing ideas and partnerships.

Joey: The nature of credit investing, as I mentioned before, lending money to borrowers effectively, and you’ve touched on trying to assess the quality of the borrower and the opportunity and making sure that you will be paid back, probably lends itself. I would’ve thought, to an environment, which is relatively benign and not necessarily in sort of a recessionary time. Is that accurate to say that the strategy is likely to perform better when there aren’t defaults all over the place?

Abby: Given our active approach, we are aiming to protect capital during periods of volatility. This is achieved through a combination of our rigorous bottom-up security selection, which I discussed, but also our robust risk management process where we can utilise portfolio hedges to mitigate downside volatility and we can dial these hedges up or down based on the market environment.

But furthermore, it is really these periods of volatility where we can go on offense. And add positions to the portfolio at discounted valuations. We want to be buying when others are selling. That is when positions are often the most mispriced by the market, and we can add to high conviction positions with significant upside return potential. So accordingly, our active approach allows us to protect capital and volatile markets and then capture attractive upside in benign or positive recovery markets. And it’s really that combination that allows us to deliver strong outperformance across market cycles.

Joey: And inevitably there will be the occasion where there will be a default. How does your team work through such a situation?

Abby: Yeah, during a severe recession, GoldenTree is able to both protect capital and create value by sourcing investments that are mispriced by the broader market. First, our fundamental and active process means we are typically avoiding or exiting positions early that we are concerned about prior to price deterioration. We can then actively and deliberately purchase debt of issuers that we expect to default. Buy that debt at a discount or a material discount to what we believe the value is through that restructuring process. So importantly, that 15 plus, restructuring and turnaround team I discussed earlier, enables us to have a differentiated view and pursue those complex restructurings.

This includes designing the optimal capital structure for the business, but also things like improving governance. Installing the right board and management teams, evaluating accretive acquisitions or divestitures or other M and A activity that allow us to enhance the value of the business and ultimately enable us to exit the investment and, and maximise our return.

This distressed expertise and ability to proactively lead restructurings, whether it’s a full Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring, or situations like a distressed exchange or an amend and extend that. Doesn’t include a traditional Chapter 11 bankruptcy process but is still leveraging that distressed expertise and that distressed toolkit. That’s a huge competitive advantage in the market today.

Joey: And, just to bring some of these ideas to light, do you have any recent examples of successful transactions over the last couple of years.

Abby: Of course. I’ll maybe talk about a couple of examples that are more recent where we’re finding interesting value today. We recently provided a bespoke financing solution for a European business that generates over 300 million euro of EBITDA. The company has broadly syndicated debt outstanding, but the sponsor didn’t want to refinance that broadly syndicated debt and was looking to execute the deal quickly, so we were able to structure a solution at the HoldCo level.

That was a loan with a coupon of your IR plus 800 basis points. So, several hundred basis points wider to where liquid markets currently trade today with two points of price, discount and call protection. The loan has strong covenants. High margin of safety, less than 50% LTV. We expect the company will continue delivering double digit EBITDA growth while executing on a strong new pipeline, positioning the company to refinance its full capital structure and drive attractive total returns on our debt.

Another example is a transaction we recently structured a risk transfer solution for a European bank. The collateral pool is a portfolio of positively selected UK corporate and SME loans. The bank retained the first loss tranche, so that ensures a strong alignment of interest. And this bank has only experienced one credit event across its $4 billion risk transfer program of more than 2000 borrowers. The investment we structured can absorb three times the historical peak default rate for that underlying collateral pool without impairment. So similar to the corporate position I just mentioned, both investments offer, you know, this one offers a loss adjusted spread of over 600 basis points. So also making it several hundred basis points wide to where spreads of a liquid structured credit instrument of similar quality trade.

Joey: Can you just explain what loss adjusted spread means when you were referring to, so you said loss adjusted spread of 600 basis points, or 6%.

Abby: So that’s taking into account what our expected default rate would be on, the underlying collateral.

Joey: So, after defaults, you still expect to receive 6% over cash, from those investments.

Abby: That’s right.

Joey: And you also mentioned, risk transfer trade of the European bank. Can you explain why you’d be involved in such a transaction with a bank? Why the bank would be involved with doing that?

Abby: Of course. So really, I think about these transactions as solutions for banks to optimise their balance sheet. So, it might be for improving regulatory capital ratios, redeploying equity on their balance sheet into higher ROE projects. And in many cases these solutions they’re really solutions for these banks, but they’re looking for speed or certainty of execution to get these transactions done from their balance sheet perspective. So that’s where we’re able to structure really a win-win transaction where they have an improved balance sheet optimisation.

We get an asset portfolio that, yields in the teens context with a very strong margin of safety, typically can withstand two to three X the peak default rate on that underlying collateral. Really a solution that we can provide to these banks because of one, some liquidity premium, as well as GoldenTree, having the expertise and the relationships to be able to structure these transactions.

Joey: Thanks for that and looking forward. What is your outlook in the market? And maybe when you are talking about that, can you touch on how GoldenTree manages, investment solutions, ideas and opportunities in an environment where policy changes, particularly in the US, coming out of left field at times and may not be as predictable in an environment as you might be used to.

Abby: As mentioned earlier, we think, the risk return profile of credit today remains attractive given the economic backdrop. But we are cognisant of elevated uncertainty. We are constantly absorbing and evaluating new information at both the bottom-up issuer level as well as key macro data inputs on growth inflation interest rates.

Accordingly, we are maintaining elevated buying power. This allows us to be nimble and adjust the portfolio as information changes. Given spreads in liquid index focused credit instruments are tight. We continue to focus on some of those more idiosyncratic transactions like those that I mentioned that are more bespoke or private in nature, which offer significant return premiums to liquid markets and that have catalyst to drive performance that are less sensitive to macro conditions and not reliant on broader beta or broader spread tightening.

Finally, we have a broad playbook, meaning we have the flexibility to take advantage of opportunities across global credit markets, whether it be bonds, loans, structured, distressed, public or private instruments. And we believe really that broad playbook best positions us to deliver attractive returns to investors across a range of economic environments and capitalise on dislocations as they arise.

Joey: Thank you for that, Abby. I really appreciate you taking the time to ride us through GoldenTree’s strategies and an area of the credit markets that many investors would be less familiar with, so thank you for taking the time today.

Abby: Great. Thank you, Joey. Thank you everyone.

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